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Post by sparkina on Nov 29, 2009 21:06:39 GMT
Interested to hear YOUR opinions, folks!
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Post by Bezzo on Nov 29, 2009 21:59:00 GMT
I never got the whole Jareth/Sarah thing and I still don't!!! As he says himself, he was exhausted of living up to her expectations ....... one of them being that, according to her, "the King of the Goblins had fallen in love with the girl". Personally, I think he's got his own little harem stashed away somewhere!! Helen
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telegramsam
Escaping from an Oubliette
Extraterrestrial Biological Entity
Posts: 162
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Post by telegramsam on Nov 30, 2009 0:12:26 GMT
I think Jareth was very much trying to mimic Sarah's immature fairy-tale-princess version of a Prince Charming in the ballroom scene as an incitement to keep her in her in her comfortable childhood and make her abandon Toby. I don't think there was EVER any real "sweetheart" potential there. If Jareth had won, well I don't know what would have happened to Sarah but I doubt it would have been a happily-ever-after.
Jareth was very obsessive, and indeed possessive, of Sarah, even to the point of seeing Hoggle's platonic friendship with her as a threat, but I just can't see Jareth as the valentines-and-roses romance type.
He's too dangerous, to put it bluntly. Too powerful. I think he would have ended up destroying Sarah, ultimately, if she'd stayed with him. He even said as much - "Fear me, love me, do as I say..." In other words, she could have whatever she wanted as long as she let him have complete power over her (as opposed to none).
I really just don't think Jareth even knows what love really is, he's a bit of a self-absorbed child. Of course, so was Sarah in the beginning of the film. I think she realized the truth at the end, whereas Jareth didn't.
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akumamika
Babysitting Toby
Where do you go to dream to a place we all know, the land of make believe.
Posts: 15
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Post by akumamika on Jan 20, 2010 18:34:12 GMT
ah but what if after that end moment he realizes that too? or mayby not entierly because it is hard to let very old habbits go, and mayby even though he was "playing" with her his feelings slowly become real?
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BabeWithThePower
Escaping from an Oubliette
The King of the Goblins had fallen in love with the girl...
Posts: 202
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Post by BabeWithThePower on Jan 20, 2010 18:42:04 GMT
I think you all know my opinion if you've been keeping up with the RPG, but I think he really was in love with Sarah. He was trying to live up to her expectations to make her happy (because she wanted to live her fairy tale so bad), but realized too late that he was screwing up royally and created the masquerade to try to make her forget she hated him. Within You and the "fear me, love me" thing were the unfortunate products of being desperate and completely inexperienced with his emotions. I'm not going to deny that he's seriously possessive, but if she stopped trying to see him as evil, there's a softer side under all the cold cruelty.
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Beansidhe
Babysitting Toby
The face of seduction was you.
Posts: 35
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Post by Beansidhe on Jan 21, 2010 2:13:45 GMT
Within You and the "fear me, love me" thing were the unfortunate products of being desperate and completely inexperienced with his emotions. I'm not going to deny that he's seriously possessive, but if she stopped trying to see him as evil, there's a softer side under all the cold cruelty. Totally agree with you here. I don't, however, think Jareth was in really in love with Sarah at the beginning of the film I think he was confused as all with the "King of the Goblins had fallen in love with the girl" bit, because, like you sad, he was inexperienced. He's not human, he's fey, and I think that the concept of human emotions, like love, are somewhat alien to him. He I think that Jareth started to fall truly in love with Sarah during her time in the Labyrinth, not before. Somewhere around/after the time he says, "She should not have gotten as far as the oubliette; she should've given up by now. . ." Yeah, while she was definitely a pain in his ass because she was trucking through his kingdom like no one's business, but I think that made him admire, maybe even revere her a little. He actually says something along those lines in the early script, "No one else has ever been worthy..." David Bowie himself (not saying that his interpretation is canon but hey, it's something to think about) has said that Jareth is completely smitten with Sarah for her purity and strong will. But even with that being said, I still think that while Jareth is capable of love, he doesn't know how to interpret it, let alone how to express it. I agree with telegramsam, he was trying to mimic the whole Prince Charming-fantasy in the ballroom. But he's not Prince Charming, he's the Goblin King, and can't get past his mischievous, vain, non-human nature. He tries to give her fantasies, tries to explain to her how he feels, but the fantasies are twisted, the words of love are laced with threat. I guess what I'm trying to say is, yeah, he loved her, but not in a "Love is patient, love is kind, it does not envy' sort of way, but a "I love, I'll kill you, but I'll love you forever' kinda way. Dangerous, yes. Possessive, yes. Would it have ended happily? Not without some serious couples therapy. But gods if it isn't romantic in a kooky sort of way. *walks off singing* "Just a couple of kooks hung up on romaaaaancing. . ."
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telegramsam
Escaping from an Oubliette
Extraterrestrial Biological Entity
Posts: 162
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Post by telegramsam on Jan 21, 2010 2:52:57 GMT
"Love is never any better than the lover. Wicked people love wickedly, violent people love violently, weak people love weakly, stupid people love stupidly, but the love of a free man is never safe. There is no gift for the beloved. The lover alone possesses his gift of love. The loved one is shorn, neutralized, frozen in the glare of the lover's inward eye."
Quote is from "The Bluest Eye" by Toni Morrison
(for clarity's sake, "free" as in no attachments - a free man, in this sense, is free to do as he pleases, much as Jareth is, for the most part)
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Post by Emerald Ninja on Feb 2, 2010 10:59:19 GMT
I think Jareth misinterpreted Sarah. He was really in love with her, or who he thought she was. Cold and cruel just like him. He thought he found his queen, instead she destroyed his kingdom. At first, I don't even think Sarah knew what she wanted, but after her encounter with him she realized that she did not want to be like him at all. Thats how I see it.
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Beansidhe
Babysitting Toby
The face of seduction was you.
Posts: 35
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Post by Beansidhe on Feb 3, 2010 0:39:41 GMT
I think Jareth misinterpreted Sarah. He was really in love with her, or who he thought she was. Cold and cruel just like him. He thought he found his queen, instead she destroyed his kingdom. That's a really excellent point; I never thought of it that way. For some reason, it immediately made me think of what Jareth says to Hoggle, "You don't think a young girl could ever like a repulsive little scab like you, do you?!" It could be his possessiveness talking, or maybe it's like you said, he misconstrues Sarah's brattiness and immaturity for cruelty and coldness.
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BabeWithThePower
Escaping from an Oubliette
The King of the Goblins had fallen in love with the girl...
Posts: 202
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Post by BabeWithThePower on Feb 3, 2010 5:11:12 GMT
I agree, that is a really cool way of looking at it! You don't mind if I incorporate bits and pieces of it into the RP, do you? Pretty please with sugar, a dream crystal, and The Package on top?
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Post by Emerald Ninja on Feb 3, 2010 5:55:03 GMT
I'll have to check out the RP it sounds great. I already have a dream crystal hehe. I looked into the Labyrinth comic sequels and I did not like how they took Sarah out of the picture. They kept Jareth, but without Sarah- its hard to see the beauty and mystery he hides. He's just an average villain without her, of course he's still awesome.
I love when Jareth says "I have been generous up until now" Sarah asks him "What have you done that is generous?" Jareth says "Everything. You asked the child be taken, I took him. You cowered before me, I was frightening."
He did it for her, because he loved her- and believed she could fall in love with him.
The scene with the junk lady was amazing in that she was telling Sarah all the things she really wanted. Because Jareth believed that is what Sarah really wanted, even if Sarah didn't know it. The junk lady says "You can't look where you are going if you don't know where you are going"
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Post by Emerald Ninja on Feb 3, 2010 6:02:16 GMT
I think that Jareth started to fall truly in love with Sarah during her time in the Labyrinth, not before. Somewhere around/after the time he says, "She should not have gotten as far as the oubliette; she should've given up by now. . ." Yeah, while she was definitely a pain in his ass because she was trucking through his kingdom like no one's business, but I think that made him admire, maybe even revere her a little. He actually says something along those lines in the early script, "No one else has ever been worthy..." David Bowie himself (not saying that his interpretation is canon but hey, it's something to think about) has said that Jareth is completely smitten with Sarah for her purity and strong will. When he says "She should have given up by now" I thought he was surprised that Sarah was so strong. As she quotes "My will is as strong and kingdom as great". Jareth thought she was powerful, but believed she would have given up to him when she saw how powerful he was. But by going as far as the oubliette he gets worried that she is not the person he believed. He starts to realize that she could very well be more powerful than him. My interpretation of it ;D
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Elenna
Escaping from an Oubliette
Posts: 178
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Post by Elenna on May 13, 2011 23:25:08 GMT
As much as I AM a fan of Jareth/Sarah, I have to admit that I think Jareth is more of a representation of a "crush" for her. Jareth is immature, like Sarah, in the beginning of the film, but Sarah grows throughout the journey. By the end of the film, Jareth is still immature....still selfish. Sarah needs someone that will take care of her; accept her for who she is and I don't necessarily see Jareth doing that.
Even if Jareth "grew up" though, he would then become a representation of her childhood and how there is this "freedom" that people would like to escape to as they grow older.
In terms of a relationship, there is some chemistry between them. We have to admit as fans that there has to be but it is in our opinions on how we view this chemistry that makes this film so unique. If you look at Harry Potter as a fandom...there are so many couples; so many possibilities. How many people would write a story about Sarah/Sir Didymus? Uh...I don't think I would read it to be honest. However, Jareth/Sarah has lived through two decades. The idea of these two together shows us as fans that the views on chemistry holds no boundaries.
So, is Jareth merely a fantasy for Sarah? Are they meant for one another? This will ALWAYS be a debate.
I think people should look more closely at their relationship and ask themselves if THEY are Sarah. When we look at their relationship, we automatically do this...we're not exactly looking through Sarah's eyes because we are using our opinions to support or claim certain facts. We view both Jareth and Sarah through our views, our opinions, and our feelings. Someone could be watching the film and loath Sarah - automatically, they are not going to like Jareth/Sarah and say that Jareth is an interpretation of childish dreams. This would be an example of what I'm talking about.
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tink
Escaping from an Oubliette
Posts: 207
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Post by tink on May 14, 2011 22:41:16 GMT
Hmm, this is one of those where the real story goes one way and I prefer to go the other XD
This is funny because, to be honest, I don't like Sarah, at least not at first. A lot of people claim to identify with her. I almost can't identify with her at all. As far as strict movie interpretation goes, she meets someone bad who forces her to own up and grow up in a hurry. He is very aware of how young she is and is totally unabashed about trying to use it to his own advantage. As far as attraction is concerned, I think he finds her physically attractive and finds her childish idealism amusing at times in a kind of jaded way. Frankly, he's bored to tears and this is the first different thing that's come along in god knows how long. I think she's too scared and busy to be attracted to him until he drugs her, and then it's purely physical. I think it's interesting how he comes back at the end, but the interest is detached. It's kind of an enigma. It reminds me of the Froud arguement for the bad fairy in the original Sleeping Beauty. Is she just bad for the sake of being bad, or does she do it to it to make sure the princess gets the right guy, not just whoever her father decides to marry her off to? There's also something in this that just screams faerie experience for me, and that's the fact that you aren't entirely sure if it's even real. It has been argued that the true faerie experience isn't entirely in the world, neither is it entirely in your head: it's this weird mixture of _both_ and I can see that in this. How much of what she is seeing is literal 'reality' and how much has been deliberately reconstructed from her own subconscious? "I am exhausted from living up to your expectations of me." Has all of this been altered for her 'benefit'? Possibly to a certain extent. Does Jareth even look like that in 'reality'? I'm leaning toward no. The masks in the ballroom are a fantastic allegory in that respect. She isn't going to get literal truth here, but rather something that can act as a catalyst, a subconscious stepping stone inbetween here and there.
As far as fanfiction la-la-land is concerned, they totally deserve each other! ;D
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Post by moulinofmoraine on May 28, 2011 1:33:17 GMT
I voted for representation, but I think it's a little of both, and I'm not a hardcore J/S gal. And, Tink, in my fanfics, they're like in the movie: always at the cusp of being together, but not 100% right for each other. Heck, in my main universe, I put him with The Queen of Trash from Elmo in Grouchland, as the movie is basically "Labyrinth" for the SST audience and she's basically in the Jareth role. However, she's against selfishness. They both give life to their respective kingdoms, and, well, they seem more of a fit, LOL. *ducks* Stories of real people going into fantasy worlds, at least the ones most relevant to Labyrinth, all seem to be psychological metaphors. However, while I read an intriguing Freudian look at Labyrinth, another way to look at it is that the Labyrinth is not Sarah's personality dramatized, but Jareth's. Jareth thinks this is what Sarah wants. He's confused that she wembles (definition: a Fraggle Rock term meaning being indecisive) about what she wants. He thinks the issues are pretty straight forward, but he can't tell if she doesn't KNOW what she wants or is LYING about what she wants, because no matter what he does to please her, she gets all irritable about it. It's when he realizes she's just immature that he starts griping about her needing to grow the hell up. She's been jerking his chain, not the other way around, from his POV.
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